Vendi v Skandinaviji
Avtor: Dr. Jožko Šavli
Originalni članek na Caranthai
Lastnik spleta: Igor Pirnovar

 

Uvodna beseda avtorja spleta
  1. Mešetarjenje z imenom Pomeranija
Originalni članek   (Dr. Jožko Šavli)
  1. F. Jeza prvi išče alternativo srbski hegemonistični
    politiki lažnega panslavizma
  2. Swealand
    Prihod Germanov v Skandinavijo (OD KJE SO GOTI)
  3. Trinity



 

 

Uvodna beseda avtorja spleta

Jezikoslovje zgodovinarje dostikrat lahko tudi neprijetno preseneti. To se je zgodilo tudi germanskim raziskovalcem, ko so odkrili, da je v gotščini ogromno slovanskih jezikovnih elementov. Zato so se hitro distancirali od jezika. Seveda ga uporabljajo kadar govori njim v prid, sicer pa se v imenu znanstvene doslednosti in absolutne neoporečnosti le sprenevedajo. V tem stilu so tudi germanski raziskovalci, podobno kot smo videli pri raziskavah etruščanskega jezika, prepustili štafetno palico drugim, ki jih k doslednosti in poštenosti ne obvezujejo akademske norme. Tako so na podobni način kot etruskologi rešili veliko svojih jezikovnih problemov z odstopom svojega glasu diletantskim razlagam. To smo tudi tukaj že enkrat srečali, namreč pri "odkritju" pomena gotske besede ["slawan < *slawoz"], ki naj bi pomenila "mutec", s čemer so se, kot izgleda hoteli dvigniti nad "*slawoze" (mutaste Slovane) kot, bi Slovani dobili idejo za ime Nemec od Germanov - to je tistih, ki jih niso razumeli. Kogar te stvari bolj natančno zanimajo naj si ogleda članek: Od kod beseda Venet? (novo okno).

Ti germanski raziskovalci pa streljajo podobne kozle tudi pri svojih definicijah izvora Gotov samih, ko bi jih na vsak način radi spečali s Kelti, ter jih poselili na nekaj kvadratnih kilometrih Jutlanda kot originalne in avtohtone Skandinavce. Na mreži predvsem v "javnih enciklopedijah" (Wiki) najdemo omembe prvih proto-germanskih / gotskih plemen ali etnij v zvezi z omembami Julija Cezarja ali Augustusa [rGdA-26] [Res Gestae Divi Augusti ("The Deeds of the Divine Augustus"))] iz prvega stoletja naše ere, kar potem najprej raztegnejo eno ali dve stoletji pred štetjem, in končno kar 8. stol. pred n. št.! Poglejmo nekaj primerov:

Navedbe iz Wiki enciklopedij
  1. Današnji Jutland se je baje po antičnih grških in rimskih virih po Kimbrih imenoval: "Chersonesus Cimbrica" ali Χερσόνησος Κιμβρική     (Χερσόνησος ... chersonesos=polotok).
  2. [rGdA-26] Moja flota je plula vzhodno od ustja Rene vse do dežele Kimbrov, kamor se do slej ni posrečilo prodreti še nobenemu Rimljanu ne po kopnem in ne po morju in Kimbri (Cimbri), Čari (Charydes), Semni (Semnones) in druga germanska ljudstva so nam preko svojih poslanikov izrazila dobrodošlico in željo po prijateljstvu z rimskim ljudstvom.
  3. Kimbri (Cimbri) so bili germansko ali keltsko pleme, ki so skupaj s Teutoni (Teutones) in Ambroni [slov:Jantarci] (Ambrones), ogrožali rimsko republiko v poznem 2. stol. pred n. št. Ostali dokazi o jeziku Kimbrov so naključni: tako so baje Rimljani pred odločilno bitko rimske vojske s Kimbri leta 101 pred n. št. Rimljani tik pred bitko poslali v sovražni tabor vohune, ki so jih najeli med galskimi Kelti. Ta podatek bolj podpira keltsko kot Germansko teorijo.
  4. Če so Kimbri resnično prebivali na severu Jutlanda, potem lahko domnevamo da so govorili proto-germanski jezik. Vendar pa obstajajo indikacije, da je jezik Kimbrov v resnici bil keltski.
    1. Pliny starejši (približno iz leta 77 po n. št.) pravi, Philemon [[[   komentar lastnika strani: Philemon (približno iz let 362-262 pred n.št.) je bil pesnik in dramaturg iz Aten   ]]]   piše: "Kimbri imenujejo Baltik Morimarusa (Pomerania)" (Naturalis Historia, 4.95)".
    2. [[[   komentar lastnika strani: zahodni jezikoslovci "strokovnjaki/diletanti" elaborirajo:   ]]] Besede za "morje" in "mrtev" Irci imenujejo "muir" in "marbh", Veližani (Welsh) pa "mor" and "marw".
  5. Kralji Kimbrov in Teutov (Teutones) so tudi imeli keltska imena, na primer Boiorix in Teutobodus. V isti sapi pa izvor imena govornika nekega jezike nujno ne pomeni da ime izhaja iz govornikovega jezika, - [[[   komentar avtorja spleta: vendar pa, če se imena dovolj dosledno pojavljajo, kot je v primeru imen kontinentalnih Keltov to za sabo potegne dovolj močan argument v korist povezave imen etnične skupnosti, ki govori ta jezik z imeni, ki se pojavljajo med pripadniki le te!   ]]]
Tukaj vidimo, da od imen naprej pa do drugih podatkov gre večinoma za ugibanja in naključja, ter da bi z isto gotovostjo lahko govorili tudi o kakih drugih ne - germanskih etničnih skupinah ali plemenskih družinah. Očitno obstaja nekaj zelo prepričljivih indikatorjev, da so vse te plemenske skupnosti govorile venetskemu jeziku podoben jezik, ali pa so jezik Venetov vsaj dokaj dobro razumeli, kar govori v prid odkritjem o katerih govori tudi članek dr. Jožka Šavlija, ki ga tukaj predstavljam. Ob enem pa pri tem srečamo tudi eno od tistih "zelo pohvalnih samokritičnih trenutkov" germanskih raziskovalcev, ko je bolje, da se od jezika oddaljijo kolikor je le mogoče! Gre namreč za rimska poročila, da so Rimljani najeli vohune galskega rodu in jih pred vojaškimi akcijami poslali med Kimbre kot svoje ovaduhe. Da so Galci govorili venetski jezik je dokazal naše gore list - in sicer kanadski Slovenec Anton Ambrožič, ki je prevedel večino galskih napisov, ki so jih do nedavnega smatrali za Keltske in to objavil v svojih treh knjigah:
  1. Adieu to Brittany
  2. Journey Back to the Garumna
  3. Gordian Knot Unboubd
Ne morem ignorirati naslednje navedbe iz zgoraj omenjenih "Wiki enciklopedij", ki jo vse vedno dosledno omenjajo, čeprav še nikoli ni bil naveden noben konkretni vir, od kod naj bi ta informacija izvirala:
Kimbri (Cimbri) so bili germansko ali keltsko pleme, ki so skupaj s Teutoni (Teutones) in Ambroni [slov:Jantarci] (Ambrones), ogrožali rimsko republiko v poznem 2. stol. pred n. št.
V nos mi gre predvsem ime Ambroni, kar je očitno prevod besede "jantar" (amber). Po jantarju je tod zaslovela prazgodovinska venetska trgovska pot imenovana "jantarjeva pot", ki je bila del druge takrat zlo pomembne trgovske poti, katero sam rad imenujem "kositrova pot". Tako so Veneti obvladovali za takratne čase najbolj pomembne trgovske poti. To ne gre v račun germanskim raziskovalcem in zato na vse načine iščejo kako bi te prostore germanizirali. Beseda amber je tukaj zelo pomembna in še posebej dejstvo, da ni grškega ampak poznejšega germanskega izvora, kar pa kot bomo videli kasneje, je tudi le del resnice. V grščini je "jantar" "ηλεκτρον" (elektron), v latinščini je "electrum, sucinum" ... (sujtinum = "ki se sveti"), v nemščini je "Bernstein" (beere, [angleško:berry], = "jagoda", "ki se nabira"), v angleščini "amber" in francoščini, kjer pomeni oranžen "d'ambre".

Ta kratek vpogled v Evropske jezike nam pokaže, da je ime plemena Ambroni [slov:Jantarci] (Ambrones), zelo verjetno akademska konstrukcija, ki nima nobene zveze nekim plemenom ali pa neko germansko skandinavsko narodnostjo. Ime so si izmislili zaradi tega ker je tam blizu bil izvor jantarja, po katerem je zaslovela venetska "jantarska pot".

 

Mešetarjenje z imenom Pomeranija: Še večja cvetka na zgornji listi z naslovom "Navedbe iz Wiki enciklopedij" pa je točka (iv), ko se prej omenjeni "kompetentni" jezikoslovci ali pa "diletanti" javno lotijo jezika, in nam skušajo pokazati izvor očitno slovanskega imena tamkajšnje pokrajine Pomeranije, kot originalno germansko ali pa keltsko ime. Naj ponovim:


  1. Če so Kimbri resnično prebivali na severu Jutlanda, potem lahko domnevamo da so govorili proto-germanski jezik. Vendar pa obstajajo indikacije, da je jezik Kimbrov v resnici bil keltski.

    1. Pliny starejši (približno iz leta 77 po n. št.) pravi, Philemon [[[   komentar lastnika strani: Philemon (približno iz let 362-262 pred n.št.) je bil pesnik in dramaturg iz Aten   ]]]   piše: "Kimbri imenujejo Baltik Morimarusa (Pomerania) (Naturalis Historia, 4.95)".
    2. [[[   komentar lastnika strani: zahodni jezikoslovci "strokovnjaki/diletanti" elaborirajo:   ]]] Besede za "morje" in "mrtev" Irci imenujejo "muir" in "marbh", Veližani (Welsh) pa "mor" and "marw".

Preden nadaljujem naj še opozorim na neko drugo mesto, kjer smo se tudi srečali z besedami "morje" in "mrtev", ki sta očitno stari besedi in povsem domači v venetskem jeziku. Gre za besedo "morena", jar si lahko ogledate s klikom na naslednji povezavi beseda morena (novo okno).
Če kaj potem iz zgornjega lahko sklepamo le to, da so Grki že v 4. stol pred n. št., torej v času antičnega grškega pesnika in dramaturga Philemona vedeli, da se je Baltik imenoval "Morimarusa (Pomerania)" in, da so to deželo tako imenovali neki "Kimbri". Verjetno so stari Grki poznali Baltik po jantarju. Ime "Kimbri" izgleda podobno besedi "amber" in je verjetno povezano z jantarjem (nemško:"Bernstein"). Izvor nemške besede skriva pot do venetskega pomena "beri, brati, pobirati, nabirati", kar potrjuje tudi angleška beseda berry = "jagoda", (ki se nabira). Tudi medveda, ki nabira jagode in med, v germanskih jezikih kličejo "bear, Bär". Beseda "amber" je tudi torej blizu venetski besedi "beri, brati, pobirati, nabirati", kar so bili tudi prebivalci Baltika, ki so "nabirali" "čudoviti kamen" ali jantar.

Vendar pa je tukaj še bolj zanimiva tudi povezava med jezikom Venetov in keltščino bodisi celinsko ali otoško. Dejstvo je da imamo tudi Slovani skoraj isti besedi za "morje" in "smrt", in da to naši zahodni jezikoslovci "strokovnjaki/diletanti", kot vselej zamolčijo pred svetom in "jezikovno zelo razgledanimi zahodnjaki"!

 

Čeprav se direktno nisem dosti ukvarjal s člankom dr. Jožka Šavlija in se s stvarmi, ki sem jih zgoraj omenjal tudi on ne ukvarja, pa mislim, da je koristno dodati še to "zahodno perspektivo", vendar jo je potrebno osvetliti v naši luči, da ne bo pomot pri interpretiranju, kot - in v to sem prepričan, si želijo zahodni "strokovnjaki" na tem področju!

Lastnik spleta.

 

 

The Vends in Scandinavia

The "triglav" (three head) stonehead found at Glejbjerg near Esbjerg, (boroughed from the Trinity webpage).

The \

Genetically, the closest People to Slovenians are Swedes

Another Example for the Collapse of the pan-Slav and of the pan-German Theory

by Dr. Jožko Šavli
(Originalni članek dr. Jožka Šavlija na Caranthai: The Vends in Scandinavia).

 

F. Jeza prvi išče alternativo srbski hegemonistični
politiki lažnega panslavizma

Franz Jeza, a Slovenian writer and journalist, who was employed by Radio Trieste (Italy) after WW2, published in 1967 a book entitled "Skandinavski izvor Slovencev" (The Slovenian origin in Scandinavia). To substantiate his theory, he based his arguments on numerous examples of ethnology and vocabulary, which are common to Swedes and Slovenians. The conclusion of his comparisons was that Slovenians, who are listed in the records also as Veneti, Vends or Vandals, arrived from Scandinavia at the beginning of the Middle Ages (5/6th century AD).

Even though the records truly verify that Slovenians are the bearers of those names, the assertion, however, to be of Scandinavian origin was rather a challenge that had to face the official explanation of history topics in Slovenia (Yugoslavia). In sense of the pan-Slavic ideology, the autochthonous country of all Slavs was the area behind the Carpathian Mountains (in Russia). From there, one part of them, the so-called Southern Slavs, supposedly migrated to the Balkans in 5th century AD. In 568 AD, when the Lombards left Pannonia for Italy, and consequently were not blockading the roads to the Alps anymore, part of the Southern Slavs penetrated into the Alps. Some centuries later they apparently developed to Slovenians.

Of course, the appurtenance of Slovenians to the group of Southern Slavs (Yugoslavs) has been an ideological question. Already after WW1, the Yugoslav State even was founded as a community of nations, that supposedly derived from Southern Slavs. Based on this ideology the Yugoslav (Great Serbia) hegemonies tried to instaurate a common Yugoslav nation, and tried to introduce a common (Serbian) language that some time back in the past should have existed.

Under such circumstances, Franz Jeza was the very first person who tried to trace the origin of Slovenians beyond the frame of the Southern Slavs. And that was more then courageous in those times. Thus, his book found disapproval and was opposed by many Slovenians in Trieste, because they were in general pan-Slavic and Yugoslav oriented. Clipping the Slovenians out of the frame of the Slavs and Southern Slavs meant isolation from the "brothers" and surrender to their historical enemies, the Italians and the Germans. Apart from this, Franz Jeza was also a supporter of the independent Slovenia movement, which in general opinions had no chance to come into existence, because of Italian and German expansionistic objectives. Therefore, the historical truth concerning Slovenians was of no importance, because the appurtenance to the Slavs and to the Southern Slavs signified survival, . And such a point of view was persistently spread throughout the web of the confidants of the Yugoslav Secret Service in Trieste and around the world.

Jeza's theory concerning a Scandinavian origin of Slovenians was impossible to substantiate, but the discovered details were creating a question, which would call for an explanation sooner or later. In 1982, I wrote about the linden tree that was widely spread in village life and the connection of names like Venet, Vends, Windische, in addition to that I also discovered traces of the early Vends. I then remembered the papers that were published by Franz Jeza. From these studies it was evolving that one of the migration groups, the bearers of the Urnfield cultur, the Vends, also might have reached Scandinavia after 1200 BC.

In my study "Veneti, naši davni predniki" (Vends, Our Remote Ancestors) which was published in Glas Korotana No. 10 (Vienna, 1985), I could not find sufficient proof in any archaeological literature on this topic. To this day we still have insufficient data and I don't know if any further researches were done in this field. Nonetheless, there are enough indirect examples that the Vends also migrated to Scandinavia. A rich culture, or better said, agriculture has followed and flourished there, but the climate became colder (Subatlanticum ca. 700 BC - ca. 800 AD). The population gradually dwindled, and later the new arrival of Germanic people colonized a large part of the territory.

 

Swealand

Where is the evidence to substantiate the theory of the settlement of Vends in Scandinavia?

Besides the above mentioned proofs established by Franz Jeza, here are some Vendic names, e.g., Vendsyssel, at the extreme end of the peninsula Jutland, and the name Swealand in the midst of Sweden, deriving from the name Sved, shortened from Slovendt, which is evident in the adjective "svensk" (shortened from "slovensk-i" - svedsk-i), i.e., Swedish. The names of lake Vänern as well as lake Vättern show that they were shortened to Vend, Vendi. This was ensued in Latin as Veneti, and in Greek as Heneti or Eneti.

 

Prihod Germanov v Skandinavijo (OD KJE SO GOTI)

It may have been a few hundred years before Christ, when several migrations of Germanic tribes came to Scandinavia, who were commonly known as Goths. After them the Southern area of the country was named Götaland. Thereafter, the German language prevailed among Slovends (Sveds) and was gradually adopted by the whole community.

There is no exact data when this occurrence took place; it must have been in the first part of the Middle Ages. The Vandals, who arrived here during that period from Scandinavia, still spoke a Vendic language (today called Slavonic). The writer Mauro Orbini adduces in his book (1601) some Vandalic words, for exempla: stal (chair), baba (grandmother), ptach (bird), kobyla (mare), krug (circle), golubo (pigeon), klicz (key), zumby (teeth), mlady (young). All these words are identical with the Slovenian ones.

I took these words from a letter, in which Ing. Joseph Skulj (February 22, 2002) from Toronto gives a response to Prof. Tom Priestly (University of Alberta). The latter, in his paper entitled "Vandals, Veneti, Windischer: The Pitfalls of Amateur Historical Linguistics" (Denver, Colorado, November 11, 2000) rejected all theories concerning the Vandals (and Vends in general), but only from the point of view of the linguistic method of research, as he later explained.

The discoveries, that rise to the surface from Ing. Škulj,s letter are a big surprise for all of us and are explained in the following:

The geneticists are trying to find relationships between genes and languages. Rosser et al., in their genetic study of the European population have come up with some startling information for scholars of the question Vandals, Vends/Wends and Slavs... In their population comparisons through PC analysis, where PC analysis is a method that allows the graphic display, in a few dimensions, of the maximum amount of variance within a multivariate data set, with minimum loss of information, they show graphically genetic relationships between populations. Figure 5 shows the results of this PC analysis of the Y-chromosome HG data, in which populations are labelled according to linguistic affiliation.

In the first comparison, Figure 5A shows that genetically the closest people to Slovenians are Swedes, followed by Czechs, Götalanders and Norwegians and then Yugoslavs, Belarusians and Slovaks. In the second graph, Figure 5B, compares other genetic groups. In this comparison, the closest people to Slovenians are Slovaks and Ukrainians, followed by Götlanders, Poles, Czechs, Belarusians, Swedes and Norwegians (Rossser et al. 2000).

In sense of this, we come to the conclusion that the Vandals originated from the Swedish region called Uppland with the centre in Uppsala. There, the site Vendel, also a well known archaeological finding place, could still remember them. At one time Uppsala was the Swedish chief town. Today, the Vandals are considered to be of Germanic origin. However, the name speaks for itself that they are of Vendic origin. The part that settled in the Mediterranean area at the decline of the Roman era, founded their kingdom in Southern Spain, in Andalusia (Vandalusia), and then in North Africa. They might still have spoken a mixed (Vendic/German) language.

Ustoličevanje švedskega kralja podobno karantanskemu...
Ustoličevanje švedskega kralja podobno karantanskemu...
The Swedish king was installed on a stone like the dukes of Carantania (Slovenia). The stone, because of its immutability, was God's symbol meaning eternity, and the ruler was responsible for his authority before God. - This illustration origins from the book about the Nordic people published by Claus Magnus, in 1560. The installation stone was called "Mora sten" and was placed in a meadow near Uppsala.

In my opinion, the main part of Vandal tribes remained in Scandinavia. They were the ancestors of the present-day Swedes. They adopted gradually a Germanic tongue, probably inherited from the Goths. But they conserved the ancient Vendic social organization. They also elected their king, and until today he bears the title "The King of the Vends and Goths". Quite naturally, these "Vends" are Swedes. But I was very surprised to discover that the Swedish king himself was installed on a Stone, like the Dukes of Carantania (Slovenia). After the election, the installation on the Stone took place. Thus, is there more than a genetic closeness between the Swedes and the Slovenians?!

Prenosni kozolec
Prenosni kozolec.
The movable "kozolec" (pronounce: cosolets) is the most simple form of this kind of installation used to shelter grain sheaves and hey. At the end of the season is it pulled down anew.

Kozolec s kamnitimi stebri (stone pillars)
Kozolec s kamnitimi stebri (stone pillars).
The "kozolec" with columns of wood (here with pillars) or built of stone is a durable and most common form of installation, which is typical in Slovenia and in the Eastern Alps.

Carinthian scholars have discovered many similarities between Scandinavia and the Eastern Alps, particularly the well-known Georg Graber (cf. Volksleben in Kärnten, 1941). In this respect, he came up with numerous similarities in the manifestation of people's character - as he wrote - about labour objects, customs, poetry, and about cultivated life style. This collection of similarities was meant to demonstrate a Nordic character, which should lead to the significant legacy of the "ancient Germans". Even the "kozolec" (pronounce cosolets), an installation to shelter grain and hey, is to be found in Scandinavia, exactly in the same way as we find it in the Eastern Alps.

Kozolec z lesenimi stebri
Kozolec z lesenimi stebri.
The "kozolec" with columns of wood (here with pillars) or built of stone is a durable and most common form of installation, which is typical in Slovenia and in the Eastern Alps.

Skedenj (barn) kombiniran s kozolcem
Skedenj (barn) kombiniran s kozolcem.
In Slovenia, the "stog" is another typical rural building, the laterals of which are composed by "kozolec". It must be of pre-historic origin, because in Lithuanian (Balto-Slav period) the word stog simply means a roof. This building serves also to keep carriages and other tools.

The ethnologists confirm, that at one-time there must have existed a unique land cultivated by man (Kulturlandschaft), which extended from Scandinavia to the Alps. This statement corresponds with the archaeological facts. After the migrations of the Vends (after 1200 BC), the Hallstatt civilization flourished in this area (ca. 900 - 400 BC). Thereafter the Celts invaded the area north and south of the Alps. They brought another social organization and culture, the so-called La Tène civilization (ca. 400 - 15 BC). The Celts did not occupy the Alps and Scandinavia, where the ancient Vendic people's culture survived until the 20th century AD.

Thus, the ethnical and genetic similarities between Scandinavia and the Alps, i.e., between the Swedes and the Slovenians cannot be referred to the ancient Germans, but to the Vends, who were the basis of forming both nations.

 

Trinity

The Trinity study is an article, which was put well together with one exception. "The people were not Celts in Skandinavia" but Wends, who spoke a similar language as the Celts.

 

 

 

 


 

Na začetno kontrolno kazalo / Domov; (Home)       Nastavi začetno kazalo (tu na levi)

 


Document:
©2005, 2007 Igor H. Pirnovar
URL:
Last Updated: